CARPO Podcasts
with Désirée Custers and Hubert Kinkoh
In this inaugural episode of WASSAP: The Africa–West Asia Podcast, hosts Désirée Custers and Hubert Kinkoh introduce the WASSAP project (West Asia–Sub‑Saharan Africa Partnerships in Flux), which is funded by the Robert Bosch Foundation, and set the stage for the podcast series.
Together with guest Dr Sebastian Sons, the episode explores why relations between Gulf countries and Sub‑Saharan Africa are becoming increasingly strategic, how these partnerships are changing in a multipolar global order, how they different between Gulf countries, and why they matter for policymakers, researchers, and European audiences alike.
A central focus of the discussion is WASSAP’s flagship publication which introduces the NML framework (Networkability, Maneuverability, and Leveragability) as a novel lens for understanding agency in Gulf–Africa relations. The conversation highlights how African actors exercise strategic agency and challenges common assumptions that frame these relationships as one‑sided or purely driven by Gulf states.
About the WASSAP podcast
The WASSAP: the Africa – West Asia Podcast translates the findings of a three-year research project on West Asian (Gulf)–Sub-Saharan African relations into an accessible, engaging audio format. It explores how economic, political, cultural, religious, and security ties between selected Gulf countries and African partners are evolving and why these shifts matter globally, particularly for Europe.
Hosts of the podcast are Désirée Custers (project manager, CARPO) & Hubert Kinkoh (Senior Researcher, CARPO)
About the WASSAP project
The project explores the multi-dimensional and complex relations between selected Gulf countries (Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates, Qatar, Iran) and four Sub-Saharan countries (South Africa, Nigeria, Kenya, Ethiopia). It aims to deconstruct and analyze their economic networks, cultural and religious affiliations, and political and security cooperation. Based on empirical research, the project provides a better understanding of Gulf-African exchange, its challenges and opportunities, as well as its implications for Europe. The project is financed by the Robert Bosch Foundation and will run for three years.
About the episode
Episode 1: Introducing the WASSAP Project & Agency in Gulf–Africa Relations
Guests:
Jan Hanrath, CEO, CARPO
Dr. Sebastian Sons, WASSAP Project Team
Show notes
CARPO Study:
Agency in Flux: Networkability, Maneuverability, and Leveragability between West Asia and Sub‑Saharan Africa (https://carpo-bonn.org/en/publications/carpo-studies/agency-in-flux, published November 2025)
